The Prison Podcast Episode 6: Facing Redemption
January 22, 2025
Today, we’re speaking with Alan, the person responsible for the tragic death of Emily, whose story we discussed in last week’s episode. While intoxicated, Alan struck Emily, leading to her death. In that episode, we heard from Emily’s mother, Elle, who shared her deeply moving journey of grief and healing. Both Elle and Alan participated in the Victim-Offender Dialogue program.
In this episode, we’ll hear directly from Alan, who is currently incarcerated at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center. Alan reflects on his difficult path to sobriety, expresses his heartfelt gratitude for Elle’s willingness to forgive him, and shares how his growth during incarceration has inspired him to help others.
Transcription
Michael: My name is Michael, and I’m the Inside Communications Director for Humans of San Quentin. The contents of this episode include strong language and graphic descriptions of violent crimes that may include sexual assault. This podcast is intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Diane: Hello and welcome back to The Prison Podcast. I’m Diane Kahn, your host, and we’re thrilled to have you with us today as we dive into powerful narratives from those who have participated in victim-offender dialogues. These stories provide a unique glimpse into the profound experiences of individuals engaged in this transformative process. In our previous episode, we heard from Elle, Emily’s mother, who shared her heartfelt journey of grief and healing. This time, we’ll hear from Alan, who is currently incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison. Alan and Elle both took part in the Victim-Offender Dialogue Program, a powerful experience that brings together individuals from both sides of tragedy to foster understanding, healing, and, at times, forgiveness. Alan was responsible for the tragic accident that took Emily’s life while he was driving under the influence. He shares his difficult journey toward sobriety, his deep gratitude for Elle’s courage in forgiving him, and his hope that through his own growth, he can help others make better decisions. Thank you for joining us as we continue to explore stories of loss, forgiveness, and transformation from both sides of the prison walls.
Automated voice: You have a prepaid call from an inmate at the California State Prison, San Quentin, California.
Diane: Hi, Alan. It’s Diane. How are you?
Alan: Oh, pretty good. Another glorious day here in San Quentin. I got my oil changed this morning, so I’m good for another week. No need to go back till Tuesday.
Diane: I never thought about it like that. You’re getting your “oil changed” at dialysis. That’s awesome.
Alan: I didn’t think about it either until I started doing it. Life gives you twists and turns. It’s all about how you deal with them.
Diane: I love your attitude. You’re inspirational, Alan. So, just to give the listeners context, feel free to share whatever part of your story you’re comfortable with. Maybe tell us about the victim-offender dialogue, how that process felt for you, and how it changed you.
Alan: Yeah, what you’re talking about is insight and connecting the dots. My dots go way back. There’s a reason I drank so much. I had to face what happened to me as a child and deal with it as a man. I had to learn to forgive myself, and not only myself but the people who contributed to that. It wasn’t an overnight process. I wasn’t the same person coming into prison. I was a lost individual running from reality. If I wasn’t working, I was drinking. If I wasn’t drinking, I was working. But there’s a reason I drank. I couldn’t face the things that happened to me. The victim-offender dialogue with Elle took six months to set up. I had Martina and Allison helping me prepare. What they did was they crammed me for it, but walking into that room and facing Elle… that was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. At that point, I thought she hated me. I didn’t know what to expect. But when Elle hugged me, I just broke down. That changed me. It wasn’t just a conversation; it was life-changing. Then when she showed me the pictures of her daughter in the hospital bed, I saw my actions right in front of me. My irresponsibility, my actions, and the consequences—they were all there. The way Elle received me, her forgiveness, her compassion… it changed everything. I’ve got a friend, Kathleen Jackson, who was the facilitator for my healing. After I went through it, she asked me to facilitate it again. That process helped me bury a lot of things about my childhood, and I was able to heal. Elle’s forgiveness and the way we both showed up in that room—it just changed everything for both of us and for the people around us. I wrote an essay about it, and they made a big copy for me. They asked me to explain it, but it’s hard to explain the depth of what happened. It’s not just about us, but how it impacts everyone around you. It’s a ripple effect.
Diane: It’s striking, though, how one afternoon—though I know it takes months of preparation—seeing one person like that has such a ripple effect and can change so many lives. It’s startling to me. It feels like such a gift to share even a small part of your journey with the world.
Alan: It was a gift. I’m a Christian, and I believe God was very much in that room. He guided the whole thing. I could never forgive myself for February 7th, 2009, the day I made that left-hand turn and saw Emily lying in the middle of the road. It was the lowest point of my life. I kept thinking, “This will never happen to me.” But it did because I kept drinking and driving. That was the worst day of my life and the worst day of hers. And then here we are, sitting in a room together, hugging, talking. It’s just so hard to explain, but that moment was my fault.
Diane: How many years later was it that you saw Elle after the incident?
Alan: Ten years. I still have the ducat, the piece of paper that tells me where I can walk in prison, with a picture of her daughter in my Bible. I see it every morning when I wake up.
Diane: That’s a good place to keep it.
Alan: Yeah, it is.
Alan: I got this ducat and I didn’t know what the heck this was. I didn’t know what I was walking into. And I walked in and I sat down and then I waited for them. They finally showed up and then he sat down. He’s probably wondering what this is. I said, yeah, my mind was racing. Martinez, if Eleanor Dowdy yeah, I know her. I said, of course, she’s my victim’s mother. And she said what would you think about having a conversation? What else could I say? That went all the way from January 15, 2019. In just about six months, we had to bond. But we went over a lot of things in those six months. They wanted to know about what brought me to the point of being an alcoholic. I wasn’t just an alcoholic after I stopped drinking. The only time I stopped drinking was when I had a reason. Sometimes it worked. I was able to do things to keep my mind busy. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not blaming. I’m not using this as an excuse for February 7, 2009. That was my stupidity and my irresponsibility. You have got to understand what I was dealing with. They made me drink so much. I didn’t think I was hurting anybody. I thought it was just, just all on me. But, in all actuality, I look back and see all the people that I’ve hurt. It’s amazing. AA brings that up when you do the 12 steps. When you make that step forward, there is a fearless force. Searching in the majority of yourself is just you have got to bring all that stuff up, and see exactly what you did. All the people that I just pushed out of my life because of my alcohol. I came to prison when I was 46. I was molested by my father when I was six. Actually, from age four to six, he molested me and my sister. And then he made me have sex with her. I guess he’s trying to straighten the crowd. Then, at age six, he ended up committing suicide. This stuck with me for a while. That is what stuck with me, what stuck with me was when my stepfather raped my sister. He used to beat the shit out of me and he raped my sister. And I started self-medicating back when I was 10 years old. I started stealing weed from him. And that’s when I started learning how to get away from reality. The thing is, I just tried to be small. I tried to stay away from everybody. I didn’t want any conflict around it. I just stayed outside and I stayed away. And, I took this through childhood. When I was about 14 years old, I was out of control while I was cooking in a boy’s home. And that’s actually, that’s just what gave me my work ethic. Because I was in a little hood, running around with the kids, stealing bottles, stealing bikes, stuff like that. It just went all the way through my life. I never dealt with it. Let’s see, when I stepped out of that truck, on February 7, 2009, I wanted to end my life. I had every intention to end my life. When I went back to jail, they transferred me. I just never had the opportunity. And this is when God stepped in. Jeff Wolford was the guy that was being incarcerated. He looked at me and I couldn’t deal with it. I couldn’t get a release. Out of my brain, I couldn’t sleep at night. I just couldn’t get over it. He said, man, he handed me the Bible. He said, man, you need this. I read that Bible from cover to cover. And that’s when I figured out the first step. I wasn’t even going anywhere around. My life had become unmanageable. I was powerless over alcohol. I had to go to step three. Thank God, it’s weird at work. But how it worked is just in God’s time, and that’s what happened. When I went to Donovan, I didn’t go to AA, I went to church. I did a lot of Bible studies. It was like an all-new hookup network. It wasn’t a place to go. If you wanted to go get some pills or go get some wine or anything like that’s what it was. Fast forward to San Quentin. The AA was there for a step meeting. I’ve been in that meeting for 11 years now. 29, House of Elle, Restorative Justice, Crip, and Vogue. It’s been a good thing, but the thing about the bond is it helped me forgive myself because when hell came with so much forgiveness, you just don’t understand the reality. He blew my mind. It wasn’t feasible. I just thought she hated me and then when she came with so much kindness. And then when she gave me her phone numbers. We’ve been in contact ever since. And I love her to death. She’s my hero. A very giving person. She gave me a lot. I don’t know if I can ever repay her or give her back. But all I can do is keep my sobriety and keep going forward. You’re better than I was before.
Diane: It’s so positive to look at that way. And she’s just such a life force. I haven’t met her yet. I hope to meet her pretty soon. And she and I are going to talk about everything you’re talking about today. So just for people who might be listening, will you explain what grip and vogue is?
Alan: Grip is generating rage into power. It gives you tools to deal with your rage. It helps you get rid of your baggage. There’s a thing in there, it’s called SITA, sensations, emotions, thoughts, and action. The thing is, you want to control your sensations, and then if you control your sensations, you end your emotions. Triggers in your thoughts and then that brings into your action. You know what I mean? So you can control all of them. You’re doing good. You’re using tools like Stop. Which is to stop to observe and process. So when you get into competition, it’s triggering you. Just stop, observe, process. And then usually you come up with the right course of action. There’s a lot more in the grip. We go on all day about what a day gives you. It’s a year-long thing. It even helps you with your anger management. The goal is different. They come up in your educational group and teach you in front of a lot of people. It’s got different exercises you have to go through. Different exercises to deal with your past baggage. It’s part of a group of people. That’s like a two-year thing. And then the biggest thing, the first group I got into was Housing Repeal. Housing Repeal, you get to see that child, that innocent child back when you were getting, raped by your father or fucking, Housing Repeal helps you get in touch with that child. And that’s what I did. I got back in touch with that child. See, before this, I didn’t talk to my mom for a long time. We were really bad. By getting in touch with that child, you learn forgiveness. I had to learn how to forgive my mom. I had to learn how to forgive my dad. I had to learn how to forgive my stepdad. I understand that this was not easy because I had a lot of hatred, and a lot of resistance built up over the years. And to be honest, I still got it. I just had channels to get rid of. I had to learn how to forgive Randy. The main thing I had to learn was how to forgive my mom. But to think about how this is even, it’s where I met Kathleen. There we go. Without all this Kathleen’s inherited nature, her kindness. He helped me open up. The thing about it is the whole group opened up. I found out I wasn’t the only one that’s been misused. Everyone in that group had a testimony. Everybody out there has got a testimony. I grew up watching Leave It To Fever. Nobody had a Leave It To Fever life. There are kids in there that sit there and watch their moms get beat. Get beat by themselves. And the sexual abuse that goes around. It happens to men too. It was amazing. That group of men in that room helped me so much to bring up the inside of the out. Once I got it out, I started dealing with that inner child. The Alan, the little Allen back when he was innocent. They get exercises when you’re writing letters. I’m Little Allen, and then I even wrote a letter to my mom. It wasn’t a good one. But it was my emotions coming out. And that’s the main thing. I had to learn how to get my emotions out. But you know what? I can’t leave out triple CMS. I don’t know if you know what that is. It’s a mental health program where you talk to a counselor. I got into it when I first came into prison. I was having a problem sleeping because I kept seeing Emily. So they ended up giving me what we call up here in Seattle, Christmas Skittles. But they gave me perfect sleep at night. That’s where it started opening up a little bit too. 2011, when I was in Donovan, I finally opened up to Ms. Carefully. I’ve been locked up for 15 years. I don’t know anything about it. You’re 59 years old, younger than 60, November 15th, Peter prison gives you time to take care of yourself. And that’s one thing I’ve taken care of myself. My kidney is another issue. She’s something hereditary. This is my family and I have to get that gene. I lost both kidneys, so I’m on a machine now. I try not to let that stop me. Being in a chair for 3 hours and 15 minutes, 3 times a week. I’ve got to figure it out when I get out.
Diane: Do you have a place that you want to parole to?
Alan: It’s in Oakland.
Diane: Is it called the Dream Center?
Alan: I wanted to go to the Dream Center, but they screwed that up. I don’t even know if I still have a bed there, so Martina’s got a Transitional house. That’s where I’m going to get my room and just a place where I can focus on getting my life back together and saving some money. The thing is I won’t have to pay rent. Get back on my feet. I’m very employable. I just got to deal with this freaking dialysis. Now that’s, I’m a welder. I’m a finisher, I’m a sheet roger, I’ve done everything. I’ve helped build clinics here in the prison. I’ve got the skills to get out there. It’s just got to learn how to deal with them. And deal with my dialysis. God being in there, God’s going to figure out a way. He chin-checked me on September 1st, the day before I was fixing to go out and leave. I learned I have to say it is what it is, there’s got to be a reason for it. I just don’t understand the reason. That’s all I can do is just keep going forward.
Diane: Be positive and like you’re doing the work on yourself and you’re healing other people, which is beautiful to know.
Alan: The good thing about it is I work with the kids here. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of squatters. You know what that is?
Diane: Are they juveniles that come in and take a tour?
Alan: Yes. They take the kids to a room. And we all get in a circle. It’s amazing what will happen in a circle when we bring honesty and just sincerity. And it’s just, yeah, it’s just, we’ve had some good circles as far as we can. And our bar goes out to them. They have no direction out there. And no role model, we try to give them direction, it’s only a one-day thing. We do the best we can to the impact, give them just a little sleep, and go out. What we do is children don’t understand that there’s more help than they think. I reach out and ask. That was my problem, I didn’t know how to ask. That was the one I had a trusting problem with. Leave me alone, look, this is my life, stay the hell out of it. That’s just the way I thought. And that’s the way these kids practice, and it’s just, it’s a trip. That circle is hard to break, that circle keeps going around and around and at one point you have to break it. February 7, 2009, my circle broke open and I had to do something so I could see myself in these kids. Some of these kids, they take questions, actually ask for the numbers that we’ve got, and ask for them, they tell them, look, your social worker is probably your best friend. But, unfortunately, sometimes the social worker, you’re too freaking hard-nosed and they don’t even understand what the kid is coming after. They come and ask you a question, there’s something there, children have that pride. You have to break that barrier, and that’s what we would do in these circles, and they would tell us about their fathers and their mothers. I got as much out of them as they did. The painful thing is our mottos always get huge first. We would tell our testimony. I’d give them a brief deal about my childhood, and that was it. That would break open the bond. That would break the idea. No, I try to be the effective person I was in 2005. That’s not very hard, because I wasn’t a good person. I wasn’t a good person. I might have been working, but I didn’t give a damn about anything but alcohol. The thing was, three-thirty was time to get back there. God, it’s time for my parents to get out. It’s happened for years, decades. That was that circle. Emily Dowdy broke that circle.
Diane: Can you walk us through your face-to-face conversation with Elle at San Quentin? I’d love to hear as many details as you’re comfortable sharing about that day and what that experience was like for you.
Alan: I got abducted the night before I went to meet these two ladies. What it was, the attorney said to a legal advisor, so I had no idea what it was. So I’m going down there blind and I go down there to see, I sat there waiting for about an hour, and they finally showed up. And Martina and Allison both showed up. Do you know Eleanor Dowdy? And I said, yeah, she’s my victim’s mother. He said would you be interested in meeting with her? Or having a conversation? I said, sure, how could I turn it down? They said, okay. They wanted to see where I was as far as meeting her. They didn’t want me to meet her. And it would be bad, but they did for the next six months. We went through my childhood, from the time when I told you about my father, went through that, went through all the details of going up into his suicide, and then went through the details of me going through Randy, my stepfather, and Randy Rayford, my sister, and all the details of my childhood as far as how I was just out of control. I just told her about my life in the middle of all this. I would get very emotional and I just have some things that are hard to talk about. They’re easier now, but back then they were hard, especially with two strangers. They groomed me. He got me ready for the VOD, and that took six months. Finally, January 15th, 2019, was the day of the VOD. Three days before that, I got put in the hole for the flu. The 15th was on Monday. They let me out of the hole. And I finally made it there. But going inside that room was the most challenging thing I ever did because I didn’t know what I was walking into. And I walked in there and I looked at her and I just started crying. And she got up and she hugged me. I don’t remember exactly what she asked me. I know what we did is we just sat there and we talked. We sat in the visiting room for six hours. Going back to my childhood, she told me some things about her, she told me some things about Emily, and then at the start of it, she asked me if I would be interested in looking at some pictures of her in the hospital from her last days. I said I know you’re ready for that. And we were talking and had that photo album right there by her. I kept looking at that photo album. Went over my childhood, and we went over her life. And I finally said you want to show me those pictures? She said, yeah. And she opened that photo album and showed it to me. So they had it on live support. And you could see her just sitting there with all the tears coming out of her.
Diane: I know this is hard and difficult to bring up, and I appreciate you going through all these emotions again with me and the people who are listening. I appreciate you, Alan. Thank you.
Alan: It was As we’re looking at those pictures seeing what I did right straight up in front of me, and that was one of that did that movement, it really did, and it still does, to the day, I can still see the pictures, it’s just I can still see Emily laying in the middle of the road, I’ve seen all those tubes and everything coming out of her and I just started crying. And then she hugged me. And then, God bless her. She gave me a picture of her now. She told me, I don’t want your last image of my daughter to be like this. ” She gave me this picture of her hugging her daughter. And that’s the one, that’s the picture I’ve got in my Bible. I open my Bible every morning, I see it, so that’s what I wake up to every morning. The whole time, we had Martina there, we had Allison there, we had a guy named Noel there, and then we had Kathleen Jackson there. It’s just everybody there could feel the emotions inside the room. It was something that I wasn’t expecting. I got there with the unknown. I didn’t know what the heck was going to happen, but I left with everything. I left with the forgiveness that hell gave me. Because I carried the death of that young girl. I still do, but not as much. But it helped me to forgive myself. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to forgive myself for what happened on February 7, 2009. But I’ve had to learn how to live with it. Because if I don’t learn how to live with it, I’ll be the same alcoholic I was when I left here. So that’s where these groups came in, and GRIP helped me understand that. The biggest one was Houses of Healing. Houses of Healing helped me deal with my emotions. Edit that and learn how to ask for help. January 15th was a heck of a day. We were in that room for six hours. We left when we got kicked out. They told us to leave. The thing about it, everything else I’ve been in contact with Ellen since she gave me her phone number. She’s an amazing lady. She’s been one of my biggest advocates trying to get me out of here when they turned me down. When he told me that I had more time to do it. Whatever happens, I’ll be in debt with that woman for the rest of my life, and there’s no way I can repay what I did to her. I’m sitting in this room. I’m part of the worst day of her life. I’m the one who made that. I killed this lady’s daughter, and she’s hugging me and telling me she’s forgiving me. I couldn’t wrap my mind around it. The whole six months that we were dreaming about getting ready for it. I just couldn’t wrap my mind around that. But it happened and here we are now. I’m talking to you about the worst day of my life. It’s saved my life because I’m sober. I’m clear-headed. And I’ve got a lot of people that I think are supporting me, and before all I had was me, alcohol, and my job. That’s it. I didn’t care about anything else.
Diane: Oh my gosh, I’m still reeling from what you said. I just have tears coming down my face that you’re just going through that grief and that death and I can only imagine what those pictures look like and there you are in the room with the officers and a support group and this woman where you took her child, it’s miraculous that we’re able to both be here and talk about it and you have learned so much from it.
Alan: That was a miracle. It was. I even called the board and they got emotional and I wrote an essay and I put it on the cover page of my board pack. They read it, they asked me more about it, and I explained exactly like I explained to you. I said, like I said, I walked in knowing nothing, with the unknown, and I walked out with everything. Everybody left when they left that room. They were changed and I just wish I could see more people because this is traumatic for both of us. I’m the perpetrator and that’s her daughter and it’s just, yeah, the only thing I can explain. And God was in the room. It’s very emotional. It was a tremendous six hours.
Diane: It sounds like it’s been life-changing and just the positivity and the healing for so many. The ripple effect of that, of both of you and your families and everybody in your life and It’s nice that you’re able to truncate it for us. You said you, alcohol, and your job beforehand. And, now you’ve chosen to have a clear head.
Alan: The thing about it is, I can’t think too cocky or anything like that. I have to remember that I’m one drink away from being that same alcoholic. I’ll never be cured of my alcoholism. So that’s the main thing I have to do—God, sobriety, and me. That’s the best way I’ve got to look at it. There’s no other way for me. You have to understand that I spent so many years just drinking and not dealing with what was going on inside of me. That was my problem. I had just dealt with what was going on inside of me way back when. See, I’m going back, and that sure could have worried me, and I can’t do that either, because that would set me up for failure. So I had to learn how to live with it. Thank God I had Elle to help me learn how to live with the fact that I killed that little young girl. But I had to learn how to live with my past, too. Fifteen years later, I’m a different person. Now I’m still human. I hold my sobriety up to a high standard. It’s one of the pivotal parts of my incarceration. I needed help to understand forgiveness. I’m the worst part of Elle’s life. She’s just a very giving person. You’ll find out when you meet her. I’m sure you’ve talked with her, but see, she even talks to my mom. This is unfathomable. It’s a miracle. She was at my GRIP graduation. They surprised the heck out of me, man. She was one of the people on the victim’s panel. They let her in. Here, I’m picturing the outside, away from GRIP, and I’m over by the window. I look out, and I see Martina. She’s on the outside. I’m on the inside. Benjy Marie—that’s where we had their graduation. And lo and behold, both of them come in. It was glorious. I almost stopped myself from just breaking down. And then she came and hugged me, and then she went up and started to speak. She was telling us about our testimony. I was sitting there, crying, in the audience. And then she said, “Yeah, the guy that did this is in the audience. And he’s sitting right there, his name is Alan Bakery.” I walked up and gave her a big hug, and everybody just started crying, especially her. Then she put my banner on. I’ve got pictures of that. It was a heck of a day. They just surprised me. I saw Martina, and I said, “What the heck is she doing here?” Then she hit Chloe on the head—there’s Elle. It floored me. I went over and hugged her. Everybody was talking to her. Everybody was asking me questions—mainly asking her questions. I never heard of that: the victim and the offender there. I walked the yard for months after that, and people came up to me that I’d never known before. She may not appreciate it, but that piece moved me. It’s amazing what happened. I mean, that day not only moved me, but obviously it moved everyone in the room. That’s how impactful it was. It all just spurred out of that one meeting, or that one question, whether I wanted to meet with Elle. The work we put in, going up to it, we met—I don’t know, in that six months, probably about twenty times. They took notes, and it was amazing. Between that and then just getting through graduation, she’s going to be on the victim’s panel here coming up. I was in that group for four years—actually a year before COVID, then down two years, and a year after COVID. So I was there for four years. It was supposed to be a two-year program, but COVID lasted two years. After that, we went for another year. We’re done with the group now; we’re just waiting for graduation. It’s surely helped my attitude. It’s amazing what’s come out of a bad situation—a horrendous day. I can only imagine what that call was like when they called and told her what happened. Yeah, so many years of bad decisions and thinking that it would never be me. Then, I stepped out of my pickup truck and went through the worst nightmare of my life. Fifteen years later, here I am, sitting and talking to that girl’s mother. And it’s just… it’s amazing.
Diane: We haven’t expounded upon what you’ve been through. We’ve talked about it a little bit, but you chose to do the hard work. You’ve chosen to be vulnerable and you’ve chosen to dig deep into those places. And you’ve had to hate those people that affected your life, your mom, your dad, your stepdad, and, people that have just done wicked, mean things to you, and then be able to get yourself to the point, like you said, of acceptance and forgiveness and it’s miraculous where you’ve been and you’ve been able to go to that point and hold that pain and then actually lift yourself from it. You’re doing as much as it is else to bring all this forgiveness, love, and healing for so many of us. So thank you.
Alan: You’re welcome to learn how to not dwell on the past. That’s all I did. I should have done it a lot earlier. I look at myself in the mirror and like what I see. I might be a little older, but a little wiser. My mom and I had an immaculate relationship before, but I never took it further. I just stayed away. But now, my mom and I have a good relationship. My sister and I have a good relationship. I wish she would accept some of the things that happened to her. I don’t know if I’ll be able to help her when I get out, but I’m sure going to try. I’ve been in AA for 11 years now, and I’ve heard all kinds of testimonies, all kinds of things that people dwelled on, things that they used alcohol to pacify. Man, alcohol is dangerous. It is. Alcohol, drugs, or whatever—there are so many escapes from reality. That’s another thing I had to learn. And I’m the only one I had to quit beating myself up. Forgiveness is easy to say, it’s easy to spell, but it’s hard to do. That was especially true for forgiving myself. That’s why I have to say it again: Elle helped me forgive myself. She says I helped her as much as she helped me. She just didn’t know who I was back then. I was only on one mission. I didn’t care about anything. My love of my life was Budweiser. Budweiser and a barber. That’s it. The day before I was supposed to be released, they pulled me in and said, “Mr. Mabry, I’m sorry, we got some bad news.” I said, “What do you mean?” They said, “You were supposed to be released tomorrow. You’re not going to be. We miscalculated your date.” Then they gave me the correct date, which was 4/19/2025. I was devastated. To be honest, I asked for my time sheets, and they gave me the breakdown. I saw where they made the mistake. It was a mistake, but they waited until the day before I was supposed to be released to tell me. I had just been approved for release by the board in October of 2022. They waited until September 1st, 2023, to break this bombshell. I had my whole family thinking I was coming out. That was the worst thing I ever had to do. I called my mom and told her, “Hey, Mom, I’m not coming out.” She just said, “Is this a sick joke? What are you talking about?” Then I broke it down to her. To make this a possibly happy ending, I went to the counselor’s office yesterday, and Mr. Nurds, the head of the parole division, signed potential release papers. I’m now waiting on the governor’s signature. That’s the happy ending of all of this.
Diane: What a rollercoaster.
Alan: Yes, it was. When he told me this, I didn’t know what to do. I just had to keep going forward. Like I said, I had to keep going, and the worst thing I had to do was call my mom. But then I had to deal with the consequences of 17 months—just a little over 17 months. I was lost. You know what? I think God played His hand in my favor. Because Jennifer Schaffer did a clinic here for Mental Health Week. I went to her clinic, and she gave her speech. They had a Q&A session at the end, and there was a big line. I got in the back of the line, but I didn’t make it through. Then I decided to just walk up to her and stand in front of her. When I got in front of her, she said, “Yeah, Mr. Abrams, I’m so sorry about what happened. Your name is familiar. I know about your case, and we’re looking into it.” At the same time, I had Martina on the outside. She wasn’t solid, but she went back to me. They were working on the outside, and it did happen. Hopefully, it’s going to lead to our release. The thing is, I’m on dialysis. What we’re trying to do is go through a medical release. There’s a dialysis clinic here, and they do it Monday through Friday. I go on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. I’ll be there tomorrow morning, from 6 a.m. until about 9:30. The dialysis sessions are three hours and 15 minutes long. That’s pretty much my life.
Diane: How much longer are you in, do you know?
Alan: Well, like I said, I signed the release papers yesterday. We’re just waiting on the governor’s signature. It’s still pending. As soon as he signs it, I’ll have a transitional house lined up, which is actually through the ESMA group. I’m just hurrying up and waiting. It would be nice to go in there and sign the papers. At least they’re doing something on my behalf. So right now, I’m just waiting on the governor’s approval.
Diane: There you go. So, tell us a little bit about what your future is going to look like when you get out.
Alan: When I get out, the three main things I’ve got to focus on are my sobriety, work, and keeping my spiritual side strong. What I’d like to do is maybe come back to prison and give back. I need to give back in some way. Martina was saying that she could use me for going inside prisons, but I’m willing to help wherever I can. That’s the key to sobriety: I keep it, and I give it back by helping other people. I help them now, but there are a lot of people with their hands out who just don’t know how to ask.
Diane: That’s true. Like you say, they want help, but they just don’t know how to ask or who to go to. So yes, you and so many others can be such a great resource.
Alan: For about, I don’t know, the first 10 years I was in prison, I went through psychology courses until I couldn’t consider adolescence the way I wanted. What I was trying to do was become a drug and alcohol counselor. I tried to get into the program they have here, but I couldn’t get in. I was a little bit shy because I had been thinking seriously about getting into it, but then they moved on. The problem with being a drug and alcohol counselor is that they don’t make very much money. So, I’ve been thinking seriously about taking a different path, maybe in addiction counseling. I can’t remember the other options right now, but that’s something I’d like to do too. We’ll see what happens.
Diane: Thank you for joining us and listening to Alan’s powerful story of accountability and healing. It was an honor to witness the profound relationship Alan and Elle have built and the true healing it has brought. Elle’s own experience with alcoholism and its far-reaching effects allowed her to approach their meeting with deep compassion, fostering understanding and transformation. Their victim-offender dialogue exemplifies the courage it takes to heal and the insights gained through difficult conversations. I personally can’t help but wonder how their relationship will evolve when Alan is released and able to return home to hug his family, while Elle must continue to navigate life without the opportunity to hold her daughter again. We hope Alan’s journey inspires reflection, growth, and compassion as we explore loss, forgiveness, and transformation. Join us for our next episode, where we speak with Michelle, whose life was forever changed when her husband died. For years, she lived with a false narrative about his death, fueling unresolved anger and pain for her and her family. Everything shifted when Michelle chose to meet face-to-face with his attacker, Stephen, uncovering the answers she had been seeking and finding a path toward healing. If you or someone you know is interested in a victim-offender dialogue, contact your local Department of Corrections. If these services aren’t available, consider advocating for them with your local representative. Join us for this powerful conversation, and remember that even in our most painful moments, healing is possible and change is within reach. Be kind to yourself.
