The Prison Podcast Bonus Episode: Hands of Stone
February 26, 2025
This week features a special bonus episode of The Prison Podcast! We sit down with Jorge, an incarcerated artist from San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, whose powerful artwork graces our show. During his time in prison, Jorge not only discovered his passion for art but also learned to read and write so he could read his mother’s heartfelt letters. This journey of self-education unlocked new opportunities for personal growth and healing. Through his art, Jorge has rediscovered his true self and is now on a mission to inspire young people to avoid the same mistakes he made.
Jorge’s story is a testament to the fact that there’s so much more to a person than their past, and we hope this episode encourages you to look beyond mistakes and see the humanity in everyone.
Transcription
Michael: My name is Michael, and I’m the Inside Communications Director for Humans of San Quentin. The contents of this episode include strong language and graphic descriptions of violent crimes that may include sexual assault. This podcast is intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Diane: Welcome to a very special episode of The Prison Podcast. Before we dive into today’s conversation, I just want to take a moment to express my sincere gratitude to each of you who listen to this show. Whether you agree with the sometimes controversial topics we discuss or not, your support truly means the world to us. It’s the reason we keep having these conversations and sharing these stories. I want to share something personal about today’s guest, Jorge. I had the privilege of meeting Jorge in San Quentin, and his journey continues to inspire me. Jorge’s transformation, especially through his art, is a reflection of his resilience and dedication to change. But his story goes much deeper than just the art he creates. Jorge shares the meaning behind his son’s name. His son is named after his brother, who was tragically shot and has been in a coma since 2013. It’s a constant reminder of the pain and loss Jorge has endured but also a testament to his strength and commitment to keeping his brother’s spirit alive. Through it all, Jorge has used his experiences to connect with others, especially young people, encouraging them to avoid the same mistakes that led him down a dark path. He truly believes that if he could turn his life around, others can too. It’s a conversation I’m honored to share with all of you.
Automated Voice: A prison in California. This is Global Telelink. You have a prepaid call from an incarcerated individual at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, San Quentin, California. This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded. You have a prepaid call. You will not be charged for this call. To accept this call, say or dial 5 now.
Jorge: Hello.
Diane: Hi, Jorge. It’s Diane Kahn. How are you?
Jorge: I’m doing good. I don’t even know why I’m nervous. I’m not used to active recording. I don’t know what it is.
Diane: I know what you mean too. I am in the same situation. Even yesterday, I was talking at a conference with Eddie, who was inside, and he and I know that the idea of what you’re saying being heard by potentially a lot of people is frightening. But I do want to thank you for donating your art to Humans of San Quentin, and we’re excited to have this be a part of our podcast. Since you do have an opportunity for people to hear you, is there any message or anything that you want to share with listeners?
Jorge: So everything started here in San Quentin. A couple of guys who are part of the arts and collections came up with the idea for volunteer inmates who are willing to paint and build canvases, raise money, and help out groups, people, or organizations outside the community. I was all for that. And so I was given two canvases, and I started my first one, which was the art of painting that I came up with. It was two hands of stone, and one of the hands had hope, with a little butterfly above it, and both my hands were holding onto the barbed wire fence. And my message behind that is basically for myself and a lot of us—that we don’t give up on hope. Though we are incarcerated, hope is always the light for us, to keep us strong, and for a lot of inmates who never made it back out to society, who passed away. So I always remember them as well, that a lot of guys were doing the job and the work to go home and didn’t get that chance. It’s very unfortunate. For me, one of the main things that I also painted is Stone Hands, but it’s a constant reminder that we are here—I am here—for taking somebody’s life. So those stones also represent the reason why I’m in here. It reminds me that I’m here for what I did, for committing a crime, and I don’t want my victim, which is Rocky, to ever die in vain. His name should never be forgotten. So it’s a constant reminder for myself as well. And that was the whole reason that I took my time to paint it. My message was, just to everybody incarcerated: stay strong, keep hope alive, and don’t forget those who passed away. And also, for those victims whose lives we took—this is why I painted this painting. That was a significant story for me.
Diane: That’s so beautiful. That’s just an awesome reminder of where you are with the bonfire. You mentioned that one of your cellys had died. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Jorge: Yeah, one of my cellys was an older guy—we call them OGs in prison. He gave me a lot of advice; I’ve never forgotten about him. He gave me just so much advice. He’d been through so much, and he would always encourage me to stay strong, get in groups, and change my life—it was never too late. And he passed away from Hep C. His Hep C kicked in, and I always remember him because sometimes you meet people in the craziest places, and you don’t think that they’re going to give you the best advice, but he was one of the individuals who was very impactful for my change and where I’m at today. I never forgot about him. And that’s why I feel like, for me, it was important to always remember those who never made it out because I always remember him.
Diane: And what was his name?
Jorge: His name was Arturo. And the day that he went by, everybody knew him as Shotgun.
Diane: Yeah. It’s cool to be able to say his name and remember him. It’s beautiful that you had somebody like that in your life. Tell me how you first got into art.
Jorge: So I was incarcerated at the age of 16 years old. I committed my crime in 2002. I went to Juvenile Hall, and I recall my mom would always write me letters in Spanish. And I wasn’t able to read or write in Spanish. My English wasn’t that good either when it came to reading or writing. So I collected a whole bunch of letters from my mom, and eventually, it was a big stack of them. And I was just so embarrassed and shy, and my pride got in the way. I wanted somebody to help me out, so I finally had the courage to ask one of the staff there. Her name was Ms. Rubio. And I finally confessed to her, Hey, I have these letters from my mom. I can’t read what she’s saying. I’m worried. And I remember she started tearing up. So I thought I did something wrong—like, why is she crying? But now I get it. She was so sympathetic toward my situation. She taught me how to read and write. And then I finally confessed to my mom that I wasn’t able to respond to her letters because I couldn’t read or write in Spanish. And she told me, Look, you should have told me a long time ago. In the meantime, if it’s okay, just draw a little smiley face if you’re happy, or a sad face if you’re sad, and put it in the envelope and mail it to me so I won’t worry. She told me where to send it, and that way, she wouldn’t worry. So that’s how I started—I remember I would start drawing little smiley faces for her, little flowers, or little Virgin Marys because she was very religious. And that was the beginning of my art. My mom encouraged me just to draw a little smiley face so that she wouldn’t worry about me. And I would do anything for my mother. I never drew her any sad faces—they were always happy. And then I started doing flowers and roses, and that was the beginning of my art. I just took off from there. It was like my therapy, my outlet to escape what I was going through at a very young age. And here I am now, able to paint with oil, do charcoal, pen, pencil. So I do it for my mom and because of the ability I didn’t have to read or write, and having the courage to ask somebody for help. That was the beginning of my art right there.
Diane: That’s so beautiful. So how many years have you been in now?
Jorge: In July of this year, I’ll have been in for 23 years.
Diane: When’s the first time you can go to the parole board?
Jorge: My first board—my initial board—will be next year in January. I am currently going through 1170 for resentencing for exceptional conduct, and I have court tomorrow. The matter has been flagged for video, so I’m truly looking forward to that. It’ll be my first court hearing, and things are looking very good for me to one day have the opportunity to be back with society and my family.
Diane: Tell us a little bit about your family.
Jorge: My family is still together. My mom and dad are still together. My brothers are still out there. I have a sister. I am married—I have a beautiful wife, and she’s my queen. Her name is Victoria. I have a daughter named Issa.
Diane: Oh.
Jorge: And my wife is currently pregnant—she’s seven months along. So I’m extremely happy to be a father. I’m having a little boy, and it’s just mind-blowing to be able to bring life into the world. It’s a blessing, having a child, and I want to be the kind of father who can be a role model to my kids. I just miss them so much. I get to see them every other week when my wife comes to visit and brings my daughter. That’s where I’m at right now with my family.
Diane: Oh, that’s so beautiful. And you have such a strong wife, Victoria, who’s by your side, raising the kids and keeping your family together. You’re so lucky. Do you have a name yet for your son?
Jorge: Yes, we talked about it. I’m naming him after me—he’ll be Junior III. His middle name will be Francisco, so his full name will be Jorge Francisco Ramirez. His middle name is in honor of my brother. Frankie was 23 when he was shot in the head due to gang violence. My little brother has been in a coma since 2013. My mom and the rest of my family take care of him. So I want to name my son after my brother, Frankie.
Diane: Oh my gosh, that’s so touching. You’ve been through so much trauma in your life, but like you said, hope really seems to be a guiding force for you.
Jorge: Most definitely. Hope is something I can never let go of—it’s what keeps me going. Having faith and hope has been the most important thing throughout my time incarcerated. I’ve always tried to do my best, stay positive, and stay focused. Continuing to educate myself has been a big part of that. Getting my GED, going to college, and learning to think outside the box instead of staying stuck in the same mentality I had when I came in—that was all part of breaking the cycle of violence. I also try to give back to society. One way I do that is by helping other inmates here. I’m part of a program where I speak to high school students, college groups, and even senators. It’s my way of making amends and sharing my story. I want people to see that change is possible. Yes, we commit crimes, but some of us do change.
Diane: That’s so beautiful. And I have something else I’d love for you to share. When I was in San Quentin the other day and we met face to face, you had your little dog with you as part of a really wonderful program. I’d love for you to tell me about that—what’s the program, what’s the dog’s name, and what’s it like raising a dog in prison?
Jorge: Oh yes! So, Canine Companions started here a few months ago, at the end of last year. It’s a volunteer program, and right now we have about 10 to 15 inmates participating. I’m one of them. It’s an amazing opportunity. We were asked if we wanted to volunteer as dog handlers and help train these puppies—
Automated voice: You have 60 seconds remaining.
Jorge: Hey, we’re back.
Diane: Yes, it’s always a relief, isn’t it?
Jorge: Yeah. The 15 minutes go by so quickly.
Diane: I know. It’s always such a bummer when you hear her voice cut in.
Jorge: You were asking about the puppy program here—it’s called Canine Companions. That’s the organization that brought the program to San Quentin. Right now, we have a total of six puppies. My first puppy came in when he was just four months old. His name was Templeton—Templeton the Third. He was so tiny. For me, it was a completely new experience. I never imagined I’d ever be part of a dog program, especially after being incarcerated for so many years. It brought back memories from my childhood—being around dogs and having them as part of my family. I was just so grateful to be included in this program. It means a lot because I’m not just training a puppy; I’m teaching him commands and cues that will help someone with disabilities—maybe even a veteran coming out of the military. That makes me proud, knowing that I’m contributing to something bigger than myself. Right now, Templeton is actually out—I like to joke that he got paroled before me. He’s gone for a month, but he’ll be back. Saying goodbye was hard. I walked him all the way up to the front of the prison, to the visiting area, and watched him leave. But I know he’s coming back on April 5th. That’s actually the same day we’re having our first Canine Companions graduation here at San Quentin. Two of our dogs, Artemis and Wendell, will be graduating. It’s a huge milestone for the program, and we’re all looking forward to it. And that’s also when Templeton will return—I’ll get to spend another three months training him. It’s an incredible opportunity. Just having a puppy here is amazing—it brings so much joy. I’ve always loved dogs, ever since I was a kid.
Diane: Was it hard to qualify to be a companion to a dog in prison?
Jorge: To be part of the program, we had to go through an interview process. Lieutenant Hobbs, who is very proactive in supporting us, played a big role in pushing for the program. He was one of the people interviewing us, along with staff from the outside—James was there too. They asked us important questions, like whether we’ve had experience with dogs before, how we would recognize if a dog is sick, and what we would do in that situation. They also wanted to make sure that the participants would be here long enough to complete the program. You can’t be someone who might be leaving soon—they want people who have been consistently committed to their programming for a certain number of years. Once you’re accepted, you have to move down to the bottom tier. But honestly, I don’t mind—if it means I get to have my puppy, I’m happy. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. Thank you for your time. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you and to see you in person. More than anything, I’m just grateful to share my story with the world—to show that people do change. We really do. And we deserve a chance to be back with our families, to be productive members of society again.
