Listen to Diane’s interview with Chris, released after 17 years.
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Video Transcript
Diane: Today, I’m lucky to sit down with Christopher, one of the first people who wrote to us early on. He was in San Quentin during the pandemic, and now, fast-forwarding almost five years, Christopher has been paroled and has been out for about a year and a half. He’s been down in LA and even in Hollywood. So, Christopher, thank you so much for trusting us early on and for sitting down with me today. I can’t wait to hear how your re-entry is going.
Christopher: Thank you, Diane. I just want to express my deep gratitude as well. When I first heard about Humans of San Quentin, I thought, “Wow, here’s a platform where I can share my story.” I wrote a poem and submitted it, and it was such a boost. The communication with you and the team at Humans of San Quentin gave me that morale boost I needed. The care and love you all showed me really meant a lot, so thank you for that. And I’m happy to finally meet you, even though it’s over Zoom.
Diane: Five years later, here we are! One thing I want to mention real quick, when you first reached out, you mentioned that you found out about us through a “kite.” Can you explain to people what a kite is?
Christopher: A kite is basically a letter, but in prison, it’s not like normal mail. It’s a piece of paper that’s rolled up and passed around. So, I heard about Humans of San Quentin through my friend, Yuk. He told me a lot of good things about the organization and said I should reach out. So, that’s what I did. I wrote to you, Diane, submitted a poem, and now here we are, five years later.
Diane: Hopefully, people will check out our website and see a great picture of you and a couple of your buddies. I think it’s from some kind of graduation you had inside, right?
Christopher: Yeah, that was from Defy Ventures. We graduated from their program.
Diane: Cool! Oh my gosh, I think we did a much better job on this intro than we did before, huh?
Christopher: Thank you so much.
Diane: So, how long have you been out now?
Christopher: A year and a half. I was released on June 20th, 2023.
Diane: Oh my gosh, congrats! And how long were you inside?
Christopher: 20 years.
Diane: Oh wow. And you were all over California, I assume?
Christopher: Yeah, I was. I started at Kern Valley State Prison (level four), then went to Centinela State Prison, and after that, I went to Soledad State Prison CTF (level two). That’s where I paroled from.
Diane: Before we dive into everything, I just want to thank you again for trusting us so many years ago. I think we were really new back then, so I appreciate you sharing your story with us.
Christopher: No problem. When I first reached out, I was at the county jail in 2020. Ngoc Vo told me about the organization, and that’s when I got in touch with you.
Diane: That’s great. So, let’s talk about the last 15 to 18 months. Tell me how things have been going since you got out.
Christopher: So I was released on June 20th of 2023, and I went to a transitional housing facility, Hollywood Re-entry. Of course, when I first got out, it was exciting. I had my first meal, a tri-tip sandwich in San Luis Obispo. The whole process was a bit overwhelming at first. I was living in Hollywood on Vine Street, right on Hollywood Boulevard. You see a lot there; addicts, people without homes. It was a lot to take in. I had to get used to taking the metro, and just getting around in general. At the beginning, it was a bit overwhelming, but I always kept reminding myself to be grateful. One of the biggest challenges was navigating to get my vital documents. It took me a month just to get my birth certificate. Plus, trying to get my license and find work. Those were the main things that were tough during the first couple of months after release.
Diane: Tell me what your housing was like.
Christopher: We shared a room. There were four of us in one room. But if you had a job or something to do, you could get a pass to leave the transitional house and take care of stuff like documents, work, etc. Surprisingly, one of my roommates was someone I knew from inside Soledad, so that made it easier. There were a few people there that I knew, so we helped each other out. Right after I was released, I started going to organizations like Homeboy Industries and ARG. They really helped me build a community and offered support. It made the transition a lot easier, and I’m super grateful for that.
Diane: I’ve heard that’s the key, having people to lean on. We’re often taught to be independent, but that’s one time in your life when leaning on others is crucial.
Christopher: Oh, absolutely. I still lean on people today.
Diane: So, what were you doing for work?
Christopher: My first job was as a non-emergency medical transporter. I would drive clients in wheelchairs or bedridden to doctor appointments and stuff like that. It was a great experience. Coming from working in the infirmary at Soledad, to now going into big hospitals with ambulances pulling up, it was surreal. After that, I worked as an alcohol and drug counselor in a treatment center, and now I’m working at UnCommon Law as a legal assistant.
Diane: Nice, congrats! UnCommon Law is a great organization. So, what do you do there?
Christopher: Yeah, they’re nonprofit. I’m a legal assistant, and my supervisor is an attorney. We’re part of the Lancaster team. We run a nine-month program called Home After Harm. It’s based at Lancaster and Salinas Valley State Prisons. My role involves assisting attorneys with legal workshops. We help guide the participants through trauma healing, the parole hearing process, and do one-on-ones, legal visits, and workshops. It’s been amazing. I’ve even gone back to Lancaster and Stockton, and I’ve been to SADF. It’s something I was doing inside, but now I get to do it outside, helping people still in prison. It’s so rewarding, and the team is awesome and super supportive.
Diane: For people who might not understand, can you explain why it’s so rewarding to go back into the prisons?
Christopher: Personally, being incarcerated for 20 years, I used to see people who had been released come back in, and it gave me hope. It motivated me to see that it was possible, that these people had been where I was and were able to come back and support others. Now, I get to do the same thing. People ask if it’s weird going back in, but honestly, it’s not. I spent half of my life in there, so it feels like home. When I’m back in the gym, talking with guys, it feels fulfilling to be able to help, because I get them. I understand what they’re going through, the desire to be released. Just being able to offer that support feels like it’s meant to be.
Diane: I can tell it really resonates with you. I know it’s soul-filling for me too when I help people in that way. Was it hard to get a job with UnCommon Law? How did that unfold?
Christopher: No, it wasn’t hard. I had been following UnCommon Law for a while, and I knew about them because Keith Wadley came to Soledad and did a presentation. He’s well-known in the community. So, when I saw they were hiring for a legal assistant, I thought, “This is exactly what I’ve been doing for years.” I applied right away. I sent in my cover letter, resume, went through two rounds of interviews, and did an assignment to prove I could handle the duties. After all that, I was offered the position. It’s been nine months now, and it’s been great.
Diane: Is that your only job? Is it full-time?
Christopher: Yes, it’s full-time. And the other day, I was talking to one of the participants who’s serving LWOP (Life Without the Possibility of Parole). His perspective on life was so positive. Even in his situation, he had such a great attitude, saying, “I’m a 10! How are you today?” It’s moments like that that make going back inside so rewarding. Out here, it’s easy to get distracted by everything going on, and it can lead to negativity. But when I go back into the prisons and see people staying positive despite their circumstances, it reminds me to be grateful and to keep a positive attitude too. That’s another reward I get from this work.
Diane: Yeah. And for people who may not know what LWOP is, explain that.
Christopher: Life Without the Possibility of Parole.
Diane: And you are one, right?
Christopher: No, I had 50 years.
Diane: But you were young. So I thought part of it is if you committed a crime under the age of 25. I guess that’s a YOP. I’m thinking of YOPs.
Christopher: Yeah, that’s a Useful Offender, but if you were 18 and got life without the possibility of parole, you would go to your parole board on your 25th year.
Diane: That makes sense. So what would you say has been the hardest thing in the last 18 months?
Christopher: Yes, sure. The hardest thing is the relationships. Just from friendships, family, and stuff like that. For me, I’m an only child, and my mom lives in Houston, Texas. And just the challenge of navigating to go visit her, asking for requests, travel requests to go visit. It’s just time apart, because for so long that was one of my things, like, when I go home, I just want to spend time with my family, my friends are very supportive and just spend time together. But what I found is that with your job, with your work and everything like that, it’s hard to manage this time and contact with friends that I still haven’t seen. It’s just because we have different schedules or the distance of where we live or it’s just things that come up and I think that has been very challenging because as much as I want to be in part of loved ones’ lives, it’s hard to be in everybody’s life. That’s been very challenging.
Diane: Yeah, I can imagine. It’s something you craved for so long as well. So you’ve got that layer on it and missing people and I often hear from people that it’s hard to get in a relationship too, an intimate relationship with somebody that can be difficult. Because you’re, like you said, you’re trying to just simply come up with your birth certificate and a social security card and then put a roof over your head and see your regular family. It’s a lot. It’s a lot on your plate all at once. One thing I always find curious is what was one of the biggest changes that you saw in society after being inside for 20 years?
Christopher: I think it could be an obvious one for everybody. I think technology is definitely one. But to be more something like a big change, that’s a good question.
Diane: I wonder about food even, there’s so many food sensitivities now and gluten and choices in the grocery store. That wasn’t happening 20 years ago, right?
Christopher: It wasn’t and there’s a lot of fusion with the food. The food is good and stuff like that. So that’s definitely a big change from what I was.
Diane: What about the speed at which things are happening out here?
Christopher: I would say that’s the biggest change. I really like life. Like so, the biggest change for me was when I was inside, time was different. What I mean by that is that one month seemed like nothing. Three months? It’s like nothing in there. Because it’s so repetitive. Like we do the same thing every day it’s just, it’s not the same. But when I came out here, the time was different because within one week, within one day, you can accomplish so much, or so many things can happen in that one day. Now, it made me think about my family, my ex-partner, everything like that. When I used to tell him, like my court date we had to postpone and they used to get frustrated and it was like 90 days. And I didn’t realize it at that time, but now I realize the time out here is so much different than what I remember it’s like, when I was younger, it’s oh, time didn’t really count. But now I see it one day we can, so much can happen in one day. So I think that’s the biggest difference.
Diane: That it hits the nail on the head with so much that happens in there. So we’ll often plan events. We’ve got a resource fair coming up that we’re helping generate. The guys are like, Oh, it might be moved to this day. It might be this day. It’s gosh, we’ve made that date work and to wait that much longer. It’s so frustrating. But there, it seems like dates get moved around a lot. It’s definitely a time warp feel when you’re inside.
Christopher: Definitely, and I see that now. I can see the back end of how, because working with UnCommon Law, I see the struggle of organization and the coordination of just to host the event. And if you go in and there was a lockdown, it’s oh man, I did all this stuff and we couldn’t even go in today.
Diane: You move your schedule aside. A lot of times you drive there, right? You got cleared, all that stuff, got your material. So what’s something that you’ve been enjoying since you’ve been out?
Christopher: I’ve honestly said I’ve been enjoying going to the beach. I go to the beach often. I don’t live too far away from Redondo Beach, so they have a nice pier and everything like that. And sometimes I just like to go out there. I feel like the water and everything like that is super calming. And just to breathe in the fresh air. I’ve enjoyed that. All the food I enjoy, but I also like events. I’ve been to basketball games, the Lakers game, and the Raiders game. I’ve been on The Price is Right.
Diane: Oh my God, tell me about that!
Christopher: So it was like three months since I was released, and I went to The Price Is Right, and they called me up, and went down, and I was a contestant. I made it all the way to the Showcase Showdown and it was one of those moments, where you watch something on TV for all these years, and you can only imagine, and I was up there spinning the wheel, I went to the Showcase Showdown, but I didn’t win. And, I bid it too low. So at the end of the day, I just won an iPhone 14, but I would say I won the experience. It was great. So that’s my other enjoyment. I like to go to game shows. I’ve been to The Price Is Right, America’s Got Talent, and The Masked Singer.
Diane: You’re making up for lost time.
Christopher: Yeah, the bucket list.
Diane: You’ve got to wait in line for it, right? Don’t you have to go early that day and wait outside or how does that work?
Christopher: You do, but there’s a website that you can get free tickets, called On Camera Audience. They give you free tickets, and you go down your way it is a few hours, or sometimes it could be all day, about six to eight hours but for me, that’s what I’ve been enjoying really experiencing stuff that I wanted to do for so long, and it’s just and now have that opportunity, and that’s the beauty of freedom. It’s like we have that opportunity to really experience what life has to offer. And I’m making the best of it.
Diane: Yeah. It sounds like it’s so fun living in LA for you. What about triggers? I’m assuming you did a lot of programming inside prison, into groups that try to help you here or there. Have you had to utilize any of those since you’ve been out?
Christopher: Yeah, most definitely. For one, having patience, like things I can give, what is the prime example? Oh, getting my birth certificate. Prime example, I would go down there. I went down to the DMV. I asked them because I used to have a driver’s license, and I went down there just waiting all day at the DMV for a few hours, and for them to say, no, you have to come back, you need your birth certificate. Those are triggering moments because I feel like I’m getting held behind. And not being able to like, I feel I have no control of this, and it’s making me frustrated. I want this now, but I understand that everything out here is a process, so then I’m able, of course, to take a deep breath and just re-shift my thought process about that. And really think about it, look, on the bright side, I’m home. I just have to have a little patience, just go do something else.
Or even I got in a car accident. Somebody rear-ended me, rear-ended my car. And the driver of that car took full liability, took full responsibility and everything like that. But now I have to deal with the insurance company because I paid out of my pocket to have it fixed for the auto body and everything like that. But it’s been like six months and I still haven’t got a check or anything to get reimbursed. So that is frustrating, it’s like dealing with the insurance company and those are triggers. But at the end of the day, I remind myself to use my coping skills, I remind myself to continue to have patience, remember I am free, it’s gratitude, it will happen, or just be more proactive and just call them, but don’t do anything, be rational, and don’t get into a violent state.
Diane: I think the insurance companies are on prison time.
Christopher: Seriously, yes.
Diane: They are on their own time, months and years can go by.
Christopher: It could be frustrating because you’re dealing with an agent like somebody that is there that they don’t like answering your email or your phone calls. like I left a lot of emails, phone calls, but I never get a response. That’s like I feel ignored. It was like you’re a company that you’re supposed to treat, your customers and everything properly, but they’re not doing it. So it’s Oh, at the end of the day, I’m still fine. I can, I can be able to walk, nothing bad. I didn’t get injured. So it’s just shifting my thought process around that.
Diane: Exactly. Gratitude, like you said.
Christopher: I do not want to live in that state of being miserable and complaining and stuff like that. So you just gotta look at the brighter side of life. Look, I’m free. And just enjoy and be happy. And that’s what I want.
Diane: What about interpersonal triggers? You had to be able to use them there?
Christopher: Interpersonal triggers? Yeah, for definitely when I first came out, applying for jobs, the fear, the unknown, the uncertainty of them discovering my history, my criminal history, and everything like that and getting fired. So it was very difficult for me to navigate my interviews, how I want to be honest and transparent, but also there are boundaries and limitations when it comes to employment. And that’s why I was so grateful for even before UnCommon Law, my other job as working in the treatment center, I was completely transparent because on my resume I had all these groups that I was doing and they were asking me where it is from and I told them to be honest, ‘This is my background,’ and they still hire me and so that just built my confidence that it’s okay to basically share my history. But that was one of the triggers. It’s like that internal, like that fear that I know how people would judge me how I will be perceived and now. Especially with UnCommon Law, they are super supportive. They value lived experience.
Diane: That intellectual property you own is awesome, having been there and done it there’s no price you can put on that. It’s great that they appreciate it. You’ve been lucky in that regard, it sounds like people have been supportive of where you’ve been. That’s always a touchy situation when you’re filling out those applications and how you’re going to show up every day. So that’s great that you’re able to be yourself. What about food? Is there a certain food that is your favorite out here now?
Christopher: Within a month of my release, my uncle flew out from Philadelphia. He took me to Morton’s Steakhouse, where I had some ribeye. I don’t eat there every day because it’s super expensive, but the ribeye was very good. I also like to eat Shabu. Shabu is a Japanese hot pot with seafood and noodles. I eat a lot of Vietnamese food, like vermicelli, noodles, and pho. And I also love Mexican food. I’ve been eating a lot.
Diane: What fun! I bet. I know the food is pretty bland in there, if it even resembles food.
Christopher: Yes, definitely. I appreciate food now. I go to the supermarket, and they already have marinated carnitas or pastor, so I’ll make tacos and stuff like that. It’s easy, but it’s so convenient now that I can just go to the store, buy food, and cook it at home.
Diane: Do you appreciate cooking again?
Christopher: I do appreciate it.
Diane: That was out of your life for a bit, I bet. Is there any advice you would give to others entering society after being in prison?
Christopher: Oh, most definitely. The advice I’d give is about relationships. Sometimes, folks inside believe that when we come home, we can fix people’s problems and fix relationships. But that’s not always the case, because we’re all human, and some people haven’t fully gone through the healing process. They’re still in that process. If we think we can come out and be that person to help them, it can sometimes be misinterpreted. They might think, “How are you going to tell me how to change my life? I’ve been out here all this time, and you’ve been in there.” It could come off in a negative way. So, one thing for sure is we can do our best, but we have to respect people’s time and allow them to want to hear the feedback or suggestions, rather than imposing our ideas on them. We might want to be the hero, coming out and fixing everything, but it’s not always like that. So, definitely, relationships are important. Time management is also crucial. And be focused on what you really want to do out here because there are a lot of options. If you don’t get clarity on what employment you want, you can be pulled in many directions. Sometimes you might end up doing something you don’t want to do. So really focus and hone your skills, whatever they may be, that you’ve been cultivating inside, especially if you feel passionate about it. Don’t take the first option that comes your way because it might not be what you want. I learned this myself. I used to take any option, did jobs just because they came my way, but they weren’t fulfilling. So, think about what you want to do and be patient. Things will work out, but you also have to put in the effort. Just get clear on your career goals.
Diane: That’s such sage advice. I feel like the people who are most successful or settled out here have done exactly what you said. They’ve kept their eye on the prize for what they wanted to do while they were inside. They were lucky enough to realize it and stayed on that path with a clear view of where they wanted to be. That’s huge.
Diane: What are your goals from here? How do you want your life to look in the next 18 months?
Christopher: Oh, in 18 months? My biggest goal right now is to get discharged on parole. My next two-year review will be in June, and I’m hoping for discharge. When I’m discharged, my goal is to get my passport and travel to Vietnam. I’ve never been, and I want to experience the culture and visit where my family used to live. I just want to see it all and experience it. That’s one of my goals. Just self-care and travel. Another goal is to be in a relationship, eventually have a family, and own a house. I want to be financially stable. And that ties into the advice I gave: Sometimes, people come home and want everything right away. The reality is, things are expensive out here. We really have to practice patience, and that’s tough. It can be discouraging because we see others who came out and already have a lot, but we don’t know their journey. When we compare ourselves to others, it can hurt our confidence and self-esteem. It’s about having patience, putting in the effort, and having faith that things will work out. I believe if I keep working at it, I will achieve my goals. Financial stability is a big one because I want to support myself and my family and help others in need. That’s huge.
Diane: That’s wonderful. What would you say to someone who’s looking to hire someone who was previously incarcerated?
Christopher: Lean on your strengths. If you’re formerly incarcerated, you can always say that. We’ve dealt with so many rejections and “no’s,” and we’ve found ways to overcome them. We’re problem solvers, and we have a strong work ethic. Lean on that. For instance, if you were someone who woke up every morning, went to work, and after work, you went to get your education or attended groups, you were out of the cell for hours. That’s a huge strength because you developed great work habits. A lot of people clock out at 5 o’clock, but if you can talk about your work ethic and dedication, your commitment to whatever you do, and highlight what you’ve accomplished, it shows tenacity. That’s a great strength for anyone coming out of prison. Also, being open and having good communication skills.
Diane: Great advice. What would you say to an employer who’s interviewing someone and wants them to consider hiring someone who’s previously incarcerated?
Christopher: I’d emphasize the value these people bring, even through all the struggles they’ve faced. This isn’t about shifting the blame; it’s just saying that their lived experience has taught them so much. After everything they’ve been through, look at their character and attitude about life. That’s something you can’t easily teach. You can train someone in a skill, but attitude, perspective, and beliefs are much harder to teach. For folks who’ve done the work and shown it, look at their attitude. Give them a chance, and see how they do. Maybe give them a nine-month probation period. These folks are positive, outgoing, and committed, and that will change the dynamic of your business. I’d really emphasize that.
Diane: What’s your living situation like?
Christopher: I currently live in Los Angeles in a one-bedroom apartment. It’s been great. This is the first time in my life that I’m living on my own. I committed my first crime when I was 18 and was incarcerated when I was 19. For the most part, I lived with someone before, so this is a big change. It’s been a great experience.
Diane: How does it feel living alone?
Christopher: It feels good. Sometimes it gets lonely because when I was inside, I had a celly, someone to talk to. But right now, I’m still learning to enjoy this quality time for myself.
Diane: It’s so great to hear. You deserve it, right? Are you almost 40 now?
Christopher: I’m about to be 42.
Diane: That’s a long time to finally be alone. Congrats. Yeah, that’s a big deal! Thank you for sharing everything about what you’ve got going on, like your relationships and your job. It seems like your re-entry has been a really positive one.
Christopher: Yeah, I feel I’ve been truly blessed. At the end of the day, I’ve had a lot of support, a lot of help. Like what you’re doing as well, you’re supporting people. With good, genuine people in our lives, especially in mine, it has continued to give me motivation and a reminder to always be grateful. I really believe that’s what’s gotten me to where I am now. Thank you, Diane. No, seriously, you may not know it, but I literally used to read your letters over and over when I was at the county jail. The cards you sent, it’s those little actions that make a big difference. Sometimes we might not realize it, but it really means a lot. And sometimes, I feel like inside we receive it, but when we come out here, like you said, we want to be independent and do everything on our own. But that’s not the case. We have a huge community out here with genuine people who really care for us and are willing to support us. For me, I embrace that. I ask for help. If I don’t know something, I lean on someone and ask. If I’m going through something, I reach out to somebody. And just knowing that I’ve been blessed to have a great community of people that I can rely on. That’s what it’s all about at the end of the day. We’re all human.
Diane: It’s so nice to hear you say that. We do a lot of work there, so thank you for that. It’s also interesting. I think we should give kudos to you for actually taking the time to reach out to people. You found the good people. You had your eye on the right people coming in and made those connections, which made this whole process easier. Also, I think in California, we do a good job. A few other states have programs that actually go into the prisons. As you know, there are plenty of states where no one comes inside, so when you come out, you’re at such a disadvantage. So it’s great to know that you’re leaning on all that and have that support. Is there anything else you want to add or anything I didn’t ask?
Christopher: Most definitely. For one, I want to mention the CROP organization. When I came home, I applied for their one-year program, and it taught me a lot about technology. I know some of us may have difficulties learning how to navigate from laptops to Google Suites to your phone. With CROP, they provided daily lessons, and I learned so much from them. Their program was one of the reasons I was hired for my current position. I was able to navigate through Google Sites and upload to Google Drive. Thank you so much to CROP. Also, the API Rise program has been a tremendous help and support for me, as well as spiritually through a testimony ministry. I mention these organizations because for anyone coming home, there are so many organizations in each county. Accept their help and get involved. You will definitely meet great people who will support your success in re-entry.
Diane: Nice. So tell us what CROP and API stand for.
Christopher: So, CROP stands for Creating a Restorative Opportunity Program. They are Oakland-based and L.A.-based. They provide a year-long program where you can learn things like SDR (Sales Development Representative) and B2B sales. It’s a whole program. For anyone interested, you can go to their website or ask your family or loved ones to print out their information. I believe what they offer is so valuable because they also provide transition support. They give you a stipend and teach you financial literacy, computer literacy, and really invest their time in your success.
Diane: That’s huge. Like you said, Google suits and learning things you wouldn’t get otherwise without hands-on experience. So many of us have learned over time. That’s awesome. And did you tell me what API stands for?
Christopher: I didn’t. It’s Asian Pacific Islander.
Diane: And what do they do for you again?
Christopher: It’s another support network and community-building group. We do a lot of events, including community outreach to help feed the homeless and more. It’s also about having another group of people who understand my current situation and who have gone through the same process. There are people who haven’t gone through it, and then there are those who have. For me, I had a case manager who would pick me up if I needed a ride to an appointment, or they would support me if I needed clothing vouchers. They offered support in many ways, whether it was transportation, classes, or just providing resources and connections to other organizations. They help guide you so you’re not learning everything on your own. I think one of the key things for people coming home is being able to ask for help and embrace it.
Diane: That’s like deep, grassroots, everyday support, things like clothing and so much more. It’s huge that there’s someone there who can help with those things, because it would be so hard to do it otherwise.
Christopher: I’d just like to share that I had the opportunity with UnCommon Law to travel to Montgomery, Alabama. We visited all the sites of the Equal Justice Initiative, where they’ve documented the history of slavery. They have the Legacy Museum, which covers the history of slavery, segregation, and mass incarceration. It was a powerful experience that reminded me of the importance of the work we do. It was grounding and made me reflect on life, on what it means to be human, and how important it is to connect with and help others. I’m sharing this with you because, like you said, in other states, like Alabama, it’s tough. People are serving life sentences for nonviolent offenses like drug cases, which is heartbreaking. Their parole system isn’t like ours. They don’t go in front of a commissioner, they just submit paperwork, and it’s reviewed. A lot of states aren’t as focused on rehabilitation as California is. California has focused on rehabilitation and providing support, but many other states don’t have those resources. That was a humbling experience for me when I visited Montgomery, Alabama and saw all those sites.
Diane: They don’t support people coming out like we do, which makes positive re-entry even harder. It’s a huge challenge to get back into society. The work we’re doing is difficult, but you need to give 100% and more for the process to work, from every layer of the system, from the highest to the lowest. It’s tough, but it makes a big difference. Thank you so much. It’s been so nice sitting with you today.
Diane: If you’re going into a prison somewhere, let me know, and I’ll get on a plane and go visit. Hopefully, this year I’d love to get to Lancaster. How far is that from you?
Christopher: Lancaster is about an hour and a half away.
Diane: An hour and a half. Okay. If I make it down there, I’ll try to get in touch with you and give you a big hug in person.
Christopher: Where are you located right now? In San Francisco?
Diane: We’re right outside the gates of San Quentin.
Christopher: Awesome. Our office is in Oakland. I’m actually going there tomorrow, and we’re hosting an Annual Lifer School, which breaks down the entire parole process. We’re always hosting events. One of these days, I’ll email you with an update on what’s going on, and maybe you can attend one of them.
Diane: That sounds fun! I’ve heard so many good things about it and about UnCommon Law, but I haven’t visited the office yet. I’d love to. Let me know. That’d be great!
Christopher: All right, I’ll do that. Thank you so much. Take care.
Diane: You too. Bye!
