Listen to Diane’s interview with Ray, released after 23 years.
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Video Transcript
Diane: All right. Are you here? Hi.
Ray: Yes. I finally got a chance to meet you.
Diane: I know, right? I’ve only seen the picture of you from when you did the article.
Ray: Yes. I’ve been looking forward to this. I know it’s been a while. For me, the delay was that I wanted to make sure I was mobile and could get to you. As far as riding BART, I didn’t think I’d be able to reach you. And now that I’ve become mobile—I’ve got a vehicle now—I was like, okay, now I can start reaching out to those I had made promises to. So here I am.
Diane: So fun. So whatever you want to help us do—meanwhile, just get your feet on the ground. And I’m just happy to sit down with you and find out how you’re doing.
Ray: I’m doing great. Getting close to six months that I’ve been physically free. It’s been a wonderful experience. Last week, I was down visiting family in Southern California for the whole week, and that was great. It was very emotional toward the end when it was time to leave. Prior to that, I had been visiting my family on the holidays, so it was more like two days, and then I had to fly out on the third day. So it’s been really quick, but to spend the whole week—it was a beautiful thing. Yeah, a little bittersweet. Like I said, I got very emotional when it was time to go, but it’s like, it’s back to business. I wish I could have stayed longer, but I had to go to work that weekend. So I’m back up here in Northern California.
Diane: So, for those people in our audience, let them know how long you were in, where you were paroled from, and where your family is. So, catch us up for a hot sec.
Ray: I served 24 years of a 50-year-to-life sentence. I was paroled in Oakland, California, but I’m originally from Rialto, California, in San Bernardino County, where most of my family still resides. I decided to parole in Northern California to get a fresh start. I have a big family, and I didn’t want to face any obstacles that could hold me back. I wanted to give myself the best chance possible. While I was inside, I met a lot of friends who introduced me to different programs and connections in the Bay Area. I was willing to give it a shot, and I feel like that was the best decision I ever made. I told the commissioners at my board hearing that I wanted to parole in Northern California, and they agreed. Since then, so many opportunities have opened up for me. Right now, I’m enrolled in the CROP program (Creative Restorative Opportunity Program), which is a year-long program. I’m so grateful to have been accepted. In the first few months, we focus on self-development through Leadership for Life (L4L), where we work through internal struggles. While I did a lot of that work through group sessions while I was inside, this program takes it to a whole other level. They’re teaching us about SaaS (Software as a Service), SDR (Sales Development Representative) roles, and the tech field. You have to develop thick skin because if you have character defects—like not liking to be told what to do, struggling to take orders, or not listening well—you need to address them. After my first three months, I moved on to Pillar 2, where we focus more deeply on SaaS, SDR roles, and B2B sales. We’re also building our LinkedIn accounts, making professional connections, and learning industry vocabulary. It’s been an amazing experience and the start of something new for me. On the weekends, I work for Urban Alchemy, an organization in Oakland (primarily based in San Francisco) that focuses on homelessness, mental illness, and addiction while working to transform communities. That work comes with its own challenges, but it humbles me in so many ways. Seeing life on the streets reminds me that anyone could end up in that situation, so I stay focused and grateful. These past six months out have been an incredible journey.
Diane: So tell us where you paroled to and how your re-entry experience was on that first day.
Ray: On my first day, my parents and my sister picked me up. We went out to eat, and then I checked into the transitional house, the Dream Center, in Oakland, California. They told me, “Hey, come back tomorrow. Spend the night with your family. Everything’s okay.” So I did. When I returned the next day, I was introduced to my roommate and got a sense of the opportunities available there. I only stayed at the Dream Center for 40 days because, in the midst of that time, CROP reached out to me. I had been in communication with them during the last two years of my incarceration, but we lost touch for a while. Then, just ten days before I paroled, they contacted me again. They told me to reach out once I got settled, so I did. It felt like all the pieces of the puzzle were finally coming together. During my time at the Dream Center, I was just trying to navigate life and use all the available resources. The area itself wasn’t great, but I didn’t care—I was just grateful to be free. The hospitality there was great, and I appreciated that. Of course, I ran into some challenges, like dealing with different personalities. That’s something you face on the inside too, but now I had to learn how to handle it differently—without reacting physically, but instead using my mind and understanding that people are dealing with their own struggles. I reminded myself that I was just passing through. Eventually, I got accepted into CROP, which has a main campus and what they call a “sister residence.” I live at the sister residence in East Oakland, while the main CROP campus is in West Oakland. It’s been a blessing because I get to separate work and school from home life. They’ve encouraged me to move onto the campus, and while I’ve thought about it, I’ve gotten comfortable where I am. I share an apartment with three other program participants, and it’s been a great experience. The CROP campus itself is brand new, and the program has already given me so many experiences in just three months. I’ve visited SAP, met the CEO, and done a lot as part of our small group. We started with 14 people, but like with any program, there are rules and expectations, and not everyone follows them. Now, it’s just seven of us left, but we’ve formed a strong bond. For New Year’s, we went to Ocean Beach. I had never been there before, and watching the fireworks was such a humbling experience. I truly appreciated it.
Diane: Did you have a bonfire out at Ocean Beach?
Ray: Yes, we did! There was already a fire pit set up for us—it was perfect. It was an amazing experience. Being from Southern California, I was shocked at how freezing it was at Ocean Beach. But it was a great time. Over the past few months, we’ve really built a bond—we’re like a family. Just last week, we did VR at The Sandbox. We do a lot of things together. For example, they call us “fellows,” and my group is Cohort Three. Just yesterday, one of our fellows’ mothers was moving, and we all helped her out. That kind of support is something we’ve built as a team. In just three months, we’ve created a strong sense of unity. It’s been amazing. And the fact that the co-founders of CROP were formerly incarcerated themselves is so inspiring. They push us every day to be better, and I’m just grateful to be in an environment like that—because you don’t always find that kind of support out here.
Diane: That’s so true, and not just here—people all over the U.S. are facing this reality. I’ve spoken to so many individuals who have chosen to stay in prison because they don’t see any options for themselves on the outside. They don’t have a program like CROP, and even if they do get out, they often have no support system. Just trying to get a birth certificate, find a job, or secure housing can feel like climbing a mountain. The system isn’t set up to make re-entry easy.
Ray: Exactly. It takes a lot of work, and I’m incredibly grateful for the support I’ve had. My first day out might sound crazy to some people, but I spent four hours at the DMV. Since I had a license before I went to prison, I was able to get it reinstated. That was after we had breakfast—then we went straight to the DMV. I walked out of there with my license. That first day, and really the first 30 days, was all business for me. I got my Social Security card, all my paperwork—everything I needed to hit the ground running. That’s part of the reason I chose to parole up here. I wanted to avoid distractions and focus. I didn’t want to waste time getting comfortable—I needed to take care of business. It was important for me to do this for myself. When I went to prison, I was just a kid. Now, as an adult, I needed to prove my independence. And I’ve been doing that. It’s been a great journey, and the opportunities are out there. I know not everyone has the level of support that I do, but help is available. It’s about being willing to reach out, go to the right places, and not let your ego get in the way. One thing that really surprised me? I never realized how many opportunities Goodwill offers. I was blown away by the resources they provide, and they’ve been a huge help for me as well.
Diane: That’s huge in so many ways. So I’ve been taking a couple of notes as you’ve been talking to me, and I think a couple of things that stand out for me right away—if you talked about any issues that you had, you had to be able to combat them right away out here, or these character deficits that you had, or just characteristic traits that weren’t positive. How have you had to deal with that? Can you give an example of something that may have happened, and you had to correct yourself?
Ray: Yes, so I haven’t done anything to go over the top, but even where I work, it’s very hostile. Some guys who were formerly incarcerated wouldn’t work where I work because they haven’t gotten a grip on themselves. Like I said, I’m dealing with drug addicts, mental illness, and homelessness. If you’re familiar with San Francisco, I work off 1035 Market Street, and the individuals that I deal with—I’ve been faced with situations where I’ve been yelled at, threatened, almost attacked, and I have to be able to de-escalate instantly. I can’t let my pride and ego get in the way, and I’ve learned not to take any of that stuff personally because I didn’t do anything wrong. So why would I personalize it? When I used to personalize things, it was more so because of something going on within me—like, “Nobody talks to me like that.” But out here, people talk however they want to talk. It’s been tough at times. I’ve even been threatened by a coworker in front of a lot of people. That was a character trait of mine—a defect, really—that I didn’t like to be embarrassed in front of people. When a coworker embarrassed me and threatened me in front of a group, I had to take a moment, just breathe, and step back. Then later, I approached them in a healthy way, saying, “I don’t appreciate that tone. I don’t appreciate you threatening me. That was unnecessary. I’m trying to communicate with you.” But at that moment, I realized that he wasn’t ready to communicate. So I decided to be the responsible one, give him space, and continue doing my job. So to answer your question, the biggest thing is not to personalize it—because situations like that are going to come, especially where I work. It’s never a dull moment. But with the individuals who are receptive to help, that supersedes all the nonsense. Even though my title is an office practitioner and I work the front desk, I do step out of the office sometimes. I get a chance to meet people from other countries who are just visiting and asking about the organization. I never imagined myself talking to someone from Canada or Alaska, and suddenly we’ve been talking for 45 minutes. So it’s great.
Diane: You’re spreading all the good stuff that we work on here—everything you knew inside, all the groups, all of us here that are simply trying to share humanity. You get someone in, and that is your moment to shine and educate them—to show them that you’re not a demon, that you can be out here in the world, that you are a human, a good person. Work with us. So it feels so good to hear you say that.
Ray: Yes, it is. About three weeks ago, our group had a Zoom meeting. Was it with Birthday Brown? I don’t know if you’re familiar with him—he’s a motivational speaker. That was good. I also got a chance to meet Hazel Ortega. You may not know her, but she’s big on social media. She’s really motivating—she always talks about casting your vision, speaking it into existence, and acting upon it. These are the kinds of new friends and environments I’m part of now, and I just take it all in. I embrace it. I do.
Diane: That is such a great positive. Smile. I can imagine that you’re fun to work with.
Ray: Oh, yes. Most definitely. But it’s been a journey, Diane. What I did leave out is at the beginning of my parole, I wasn’t working, I wasn’t part of CROP, but what I was doing was involving myself in different community events, doing live caricatures. So I did a few events, which was cool. And then everything shifted. It was like now I’m in CROP. I’m at school from nine to five. Then I work on the weekends. So I just did an event for Christmas. There’s a church in San Francisco. We volunteered our services. So we do community engagement every other Friday, whether we’re cleaning up in a neighborhood or we’re going to a homeless shelter to pass out food. So here at this church, we were connected to Excel, the Excel program. We were going to help out for us, dress up as either elves or Santa Claus, and help pass out gifts and things like that. I asked the main individuals that I needed to speak to if I could just extend my services by doing live caricatures for the kids, and they were up for it. That was the last time I did an event. It was probably on Christmas, but now that things have shifted as far as my schooling, my hours are a little bit different. I’m trying to get more involved in doing that. On my little week vacation with my family, I started doing face painting on my nieces and nephews. So that is my new adventure now—doing face painting for the kids, which is cool. I’m trying to get that going. I didn’t get a chance to do it much with my nieces and nephews down there, but I got one friend who has grandkids. He’s willing to let me do some face painting on them so I can build my portfolio. I’m trying to extend my services that way as well.
Diane: I’ll put your name out there. The ones you did for us are awesome. What was it like that you were able to do that live, your art?
Ray: So I would go to events. I bring my chairs, my table, my easel, and I pretty much try to talk to people. Or a lot of times, once I start doing one, people start coming up like, “Hey, can we get in? Can we be next?” I’m like, “You just started the line!”
Diane: Like when you’re, you know, when you did the ones for us, you’re sitting in your cell, you have time to think about it. I mean, I’m thinking like, how do you translate it on the fly? All of a sudden, you got to be creative, you got to nail it, people are talking to you. You have people around. Was it just as easy to go from one to the other?
Ray: So it’s easier when you have a picture. Because I do custom caricature greeting cards. So if I have a picture, I can take my time. But when I do it live, there’s a system that’s in my head. Instantly visualizing goes in place instantly. What am I exaggerating? As soon as the person sits down, I don’t wanna immediately start; I need at least about 30 seconds. I’m trying to strain my eyes, and squint—what is unique about this person that I may exaggerate, what features? Is it the eyes? What sticks out the most to me? And once I figure that out, I have to figure that out within seconds, and then I go. At the same time, I’m conversing with the individual who’s sitting in the chair. And what I have learned, Diane, is a lot. I’ve felt like, because I had it done to me, I had one done when I was like eight years old, so I felt like maybe everybody had a caricature done of them. But no, that’s not true. There were so many within the events that I have done, the majority of them had never had one done. So it’s an experience that they end up having, and I’m grateful that they get to experience that because what they feel is what I felt when I was eight years old. So I’m glad to extend my services for them to get that experience.
Diane: How fun is that? I’m so excited. We need to have an event now where you come and do that for people.
Ray: Yes.
Diane: Your pictures are so amazing.
Ray: I love doing that. Thank you.
Diane: We gotta get that going on. So one thing that always interests me is, in 24 years of being inside, what was something that hit you right away that had changed?
Ray: Let me see. I wanna say transactions, money, everything is digital. Some people still carry cash, but everything is digital. I went to do my DMV test. When I left, you would write everything. That’s not what’s going on now, so it was that. And I’m still adjusting to that, it’s been a challenge. I’m not scared of it. It’s just, okay, give me a second. Let me figure it out. Even within the CROP, within the first 90 days, we take on some digital literacy as well, and I don’t necessarily have it all locked in, but I got a little more comfortable to where I identify the icons. I can pretty much figure it out. Just let me mess around a little bit. I can figure it out. But that was the main thing. That sticks to me—that and everybody walks around with their head down. So they’ve got the earbuds in, and it’s just like, I don’t know why he talks to nobody. But I’m one of the ones that can adjust pretty quick. So I don’t adjust. I feel like I’m going to be hindered, and I believe that to be true. So I need to be able to adjust. While you’re locked up, a lot of times you’re set; you’re so structured, you’re set with time frames and things of that nature, and life doesn’t typically operate like that, so you need to be able to adjust. So when I was in there and I was a part of the Delancey Street Honors program, that’s something that they were breaking us of—that you are so structured, like you work out at this time, you go to the yard at this time. We’re going to break you from that because life doesn’t operate like that. And that was like the best experience that I have received within my time of being incarcerated because it made it that much easier for me, and it made it that much easier for me to be accepted. Typically, I don’t hear “no.” It’s like everything has to be “yes.” No, I’m receptive to this, just not right now.
Diane: That’s good to hear. I didn’t know that she did that. I always wondered if you’ve had the same routine for 24 years. There hasn’t been a car trip. There’s been nothing that’s interrupted any of that time. So that’s wonderful. They bring that to you. How has it been breaking those habits, like sleeping on a bed and making your own food and all that stuff?
Ray: So when I was at the Dream Center the first 40 days, they have a chef there. So she was like my grandma—she cooks really good. So, and once I went to the CROP, they were like, “You gotta make your food.” So now, me and my roommates, we like to take turns: “Who’s gonna cook dinner?” You know, we will cook together, but that was a little shift right there. Like, at first, everything was provided, and now you gotta do it on your own. And when you gotta do it on your own, for me, typically if I’ve been at school all day and I come back, it’s first dealing with traffic. You know, once I get out of traffic and I get home, it’s okay, let me cook. By the time I cook, we’re already breaking into 7:30, almost 8 o’clock, and it’s like, oh man, now I’m a little tired. It’s just like I still have things that I need to do, and it’s just like, that right there. So once we have a little system—”Yo, you’re gonna cook tonight?” “Okay.” Once I get back from school, I can do X, Y, and Z, and when it’s on me, it’s okay, some of that stuff will be done in the morning time before I go to school. But all of that beats my birthday and being in prison, so I’ll take it all in. I’ll take it all in.
Diane: Such a great outlook. The worst day out here is always going to be better than your best day in there.
Ray: Yes. Oh, before I forget, one of my roommates is Kobe Southwood, and he said hi, if you do remember him.
Diane: Yes.
Ray: He was at San Quentin. That’s my other roommate.
Diane: Cool. Will you guys still have pictures in this reel? So if you are in your interview, will you send pictures of him and any other ones that you have?
Ray: Oh, Kobe?
Diane: Yeah. Do you have a picture of the two of you together?
Ray: I believe so. Would you like to see him right now?
Diane: Yes. Bring him over. Let me get him.
Kobe: How are you?
Diane: Good, how are you?
Kobe: Good.
Diane: How’s life?
Kobe: It’s wonderful.
Diane: How long have you been out now?
Kobe: Huh?
Diane: How long have you been out now?
Kobe: Since November 6th.
Diane: Oh my gosh. Congrats. That feels like yesterday.
Kobe: Yeah. Honestly, it’s crazy. It feels like I’ve been out forever. It just flew right into life.
Diane: And how long were you in?
Kobe: Seven years.
Diane: Nice. And you’re in Oakland and you’re living with Ray. How fun is he?
Kobe: Yeah, he’s amazing. Ray’s a good dude.
Diane: Yeah. Alright, so you’re going to school with CROP too, I presume?
Kobe: Yes, ma’am. Yep.
Diane: Nice. How’s your re-entry been?
Kobe: It’s been wonderful. CROP is an amazing program. It is like the Ivy League of re-entry. They’ve been helping us out. They take care of us in more ways than just helping us financially. They’re helping us manage our finances. And they’re helping us learn more about the way we are and how we deal with certain things in life in general. And they’re just great at helping us network. We’re going to do a Nike photo shoot in a couple of hours and stuff like that. We’re going to the Capitol next month and all sorts of amazing stuff. I never dreamed of doing it before I went to prison and stuff.
Diane: I thought you’d be a part of how great that is. So much success. I love hearing that.
Kobe: I’m going back to San Quentin hopefully in the next four months to play softball with Dougie and Kevin and some of the other fellows.
Diane: I just saw them the other morning. We were trying to go on Saturday morning. I was going in to play pickleball and they were going in to play, and it was foggy. So we were all turned away, hanging out in the parking lot, hoping that the fog would lift.
Kobe: That fog is horrible.
Diane: I want to hear about your tattoos. It looks like you have one on your neck and one on your chest.
Kobe: I have all sorts of tattoos.
Diane: They are so cool. It’s so nice to see you. Thanks for sitting down and just congrats on your success. And CROP seems like they need a huge pat on the back, right?
Kobe: Yeah, no. It’s an amazing program. I’d recommend it to anybody who wants to change their life and change their people, places, and things when they get out. That’s what I did. I’m from Yosemite, so Oakland is a whole other environment, but it was the best thing for me. You know, like, when you change your life, you do have to change those other three things too.
Diane: Exactly. That’s hard. You guys are doing the work. You’re looking inside, and so many people don’t do that. So that is hard.
Kobe: Thank you. It was nice to see you. I’m getting ready for this photo shoot, but I appreciate you letting me sit down and talk to you for a minute.
Diane: Oh my gosh. I’m so glad you did. You made my day, seeing the both of you out here in the world being successful, so I appreciate you sitting down. Thank you.
Kobe: No problem, Diane. You have a good one.
Diane: You too, bye-bye. Show off your CROP shirt to the camera.
Ray: Oh, okay.
Diane: Yeah, let’s give credit where credit’s due with them. That’s awesome.
Ray: Yes, it’s truly a blessing. It is. It’s truly a blessing. Like Kobe, like a lot of stuff I left out, he brought to your attention. It’s just, yes, nobody else is doing what they’re doing. Like I said, we’re learning about credit. You name it. It’s a new way of being that they’re introducing us to.
Diane: Giving you an opportunity is just huge. So I know you’ve only been out for six months, so this can be a far-reaching question, but do you have future plans for what you want?
Ray: So right now, I’m very open to this next step, pillar one, where we are, as far as we’re dealing with SaaS (Software as a Service), and SDR (Sales Development Representative) roles in B2B sales (business-to-business sales). Our instructor is teaching us, like we had a soft opening last week and this following week, we are going to get down to it. We are trying to meet up with, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Shelly Winters, who was formerly incarcerated. She works for Microsoft. She’s one of their lead sellers, and that’s somebody who motivates us as well. So I’m open to and receptive to doing that. I feel like I have a niche for it. So I want to give it a shot. I do. We’re supposed to graduate in October, and I feel like there will be several other opportunities on the table for me, so I’m not closing myself off. I’m just making myself available and trying all that. I feel like I have a shot at doing it. And in the meantime, I’m still a passionate artist and I’m trying to find avenues for that as well.
Diane: I want to see you do that in action. That’s so fun. So you went down to LA where your family was for a week. Is that what you said they were?
Ray: Yes, Aberdeen. An hour away from LA.
Diane: And how was it being down there in that environment where, obviously, so much love came from, but also that negativity too?
Ray: So much has changed. I realized that during my time down there, I wasn’t seeking out any old friends or old hangouts. I would probably drive past them, but I didn’t even care—it was like none of that stuff even mattered anymore. And like I said, it was so humbling because I got the chance to see one of the patriarchs of our family, my great auntie, something I’ve been wanting to do for so long. Finally being able to visit her and have her see me was truly a blessing. But so much has been built, and things have changed. All my nieces and nephews were born after I went to prison. So for them to get familiar with me—and for that familiarity to grow each time I visit—is just wonderful. And just being able to spend time with my parents means everything. When I was inside, I took the small things for granted—just going on a walk with my mom, helping her in her flower bed, or helping my dad move things around and rearrange stuff. Like this shirt I’m wearing—my mom put this shirt together, and I helped her with her Cricut machine. We went to buy the vinyl, watched YouTube videos, and figured it out together. Just being able to do that, those simple things, was something I always dreamed about doing. And now those dreams are coming true. I’m no longer taking the small things for granted; I’m embracing them.
Diane: Oh my gosh, you’re so thankful. Sometimes it’s just, like you said, running errands with someone—simply spending time together. And then, being able to create something on top of that makes it even better. That just puts the frosting on the cake. It’s so great to hear! You got to meet all your family—your little nephews running around.
Ray: Yes, most definitely. I even did a little babysitting.
Diane: If you were living down there, you’d probably be doing a whole lot more of that, I bet.
Ray: Oh, they were trying to line it up already! “Can you just watch them for a couple of hours?”
Diane: Grocery store? Oh, I’m a mom—I know that move. “Just let me take them so I can do some laundry and make the bed.”
Ray: Exactly! So for me, I turned it into an event. That’s when the idea popped into my head, though I had already been thinking about it before I went down there. I thought, “You know what? I think I want to get into face painting.” My dad had put that idea in my head. Then my sister asked me to watch the kids for a few hours, and I said, “Yeah.” She gave me a couple of days’ notice, so I went to Hobby Lobby, bought a face painting kit, and made it into an event. And we did it!
Diane: You gotta send me pictures of all that! Did you take pictures of the kids after you painted their faces?
Ray: Yes, I did.
Diane: If you don’t mind me sharing, I’d love to see them! Just let me know what I can post and share.
Ray: Sure. I’ll send you some pictures of me and Kobe, and also some of the face painting I did. The kit wasn’t the best, so I need to get a better one. But as an artist, I was like, “Oh yeah, I got this.” I already see how it works—I just need a better kit with more vibrant paint. Like I said, I adjust quickly. I know what to look for.
Diane: Yeah, how fun! You and I live close by—we should make that happen.
Ray: Yes, most definitely.
Diane: That would be fun on nights or weekends when you’re not working. Does CROP keep you busy on the weekends too, or not?
Ray: Just during the week. I used to go five days a week, but now I think I’ll be going just three days. A couple of hours in the morning, then we have Zoom meetings in the afternoon and later in the evening. CROP is also in LA, but they don’t have a live-in facility. What we’re learning is that they have a Cohort Three down here as well, which started at the same time as ours. So now, we’re combining in our Zoom meetings on—what is it—Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings.
Diane: Yeah, so you’ve got some open time slots in there, right?
Ray: Yes, most definitely.
Diane: Oh my gosh, you’re so thankful. Sometimes it’s just, like you said, running errands with someone—just simply spending time together. And then, to be able to create something too makes it even better. That just puts the frosting on top. It’s so great to hear. You get to meet all your family—your little nephews running around.
Ray: Yes, most definitely. I even did a little babysitting.
Diane: If you were living down there, you’d be doing a whole lot more of that, I bet.
Ray: Oh, they were trying to line it up already! “Can you just watch them for a couple of hours?”
Diane: Grocery store? I’m a mom—I know that move. “Just let me take them so I can do some laundry and make the bed.”
Ray: Exactly! So for me, I turned it into an event. That’s when the idea popped into my head, though I had already been thinking about it before I went down there. I thought, “You know what? I think I want to get into face painting.” My dad had put that idea in my head. And then my sister asked me to watch the kids for a few hours, so I said, “Yeah.” She told me two days ahead of time, so I went to Hobby Lobby, bought a face painting kit, and turned it into an event. And we did it!
Diane: You gotta send me pictures of all that! Did you take pictures of the kids after you painted their faces?
Ray: Yes, I did.
Diane: If you don’t mind me sharing, I’d love to see them! You can let me know what I can post and share.
Ray: Sure. I’ll send you some pictures of me and Kobe, and I’ll also send you some of the face painting I did. The kit wasn’t the best, so I need to get a better one. But as an artist, I was like, “Oh yeah, I got this.” I already see how it works—I just need a better kit where the paint is more vibrant. Like I said, I adjust quickly. I know what to look for.
Diane: Yeah, how fun! You and I are living close by—we should get that going. Let’s make that happen.
Ray: Yes, most definitely.
Diane: That would be fun on nights or weekends when you’re not working. Does CROP keep you busy on the weekends too, or not?
Ray: Just during the week. So I used to go five days, and now I think I’ll be going for just three days. So a couple of hours in the morning, then we have Zoom meetings in the afternoon, and later on in the evening. Because CROP is also in LA, but they don’t have a live-in facility. So what we’re learning is they have a cohort three down here as well. It started at the same time. So we would be combining in our Zoom meetings on, what is it, Monday evening, and Wednesday and Thursday evening.
Diane: Yeah, you got some time slots in there, right?
Ray: Yes, most definitely.
Diane: I’ll let you go here pretty soon, but I wanted to ask, did you do art? Did you do art prior to being in prison?
Ray: Yes, I did. So I believe I started drawing when I was around five, but my mom said I was drawing around four. Okay. Tomato, tomahto. But yes, I always did. I always was drawing. As a little kid, I always used to get in a lot of trouble. So a lot of times I’d be in my room with just an ink pen and paper, and I’d just be—not necessarily doodling—but I’d be drawing whatever came to my mind. I remember a lot of times my uncles, some of my uncles were in prison, and they would send my aunties greeting cards that somebody had drawn inside, like some of the stuff that’s on your back wall. I would see it, and instantly I knew I could draw it. So I would draw it. It may not look identical to it, but I knew I could draw it, and I gravitated to that because I knew I could touch it. Now that I think about it, there was one picture of a car that my uncle had drawn and sent to my auntie. It was on a file folder—this is how good my memory is. It was on a file folder. I didn’t know that at the time. And yes, he used a black Bic ink pen, but he engraved it into the folder so I could feel the actual streaks. I typically don’t draw like that. When I use an ink pen, I’m much smoother, so it’s not dug into the actual paper. And it was just like—all these things were going on in my mind as a kid. Wow, somebody drew this. Or this smells like an ink pen. This was home. Somebody did this, and I can do the exact same thing.
Diane: Yeah. How cool is that? So you’ve been ready for it. So at least you got to do some of that in prison and get through CROP and see where all your new tools land. You tell me, is there anything that I didn’t ask that you want to share with people?
Ray: I think we pretty much covered everything, but I would say that when I mentioned volunteering my services, I feel like I destroyed the community so much that I’m trying to restore it back. Especially when it comes to the youth. So I’m just like—however I can utilize my skill to give back, I’m more than open to doing that. This is something that I dreamed about while inside. Man, I want to be able to give back to the community. Because a lot of times, especially when you’re dealing with youth life, they don’t have any mentors. They don’t have anybody doing stuff. There are probably people around them doing positive things, but they are so into themselves that they don’t even try to reach out to the youth or those who are at risk. So what I’m good at doing, I don’t mind giving it away. I don’t mind sharing it. I yearn to try to teach some other kids who have the ability to draw. I could try to show you this skill if you’re interested. I don’t mind. I don’t hold on to this gift—God blessed me with this gift, so I don’t mind giving it away. I’m constantly involved in trying to learn more to add to that gift, but yeah, it’s not a big secret. I can show you how I do it. I told you one of my techniques already, and instantly, within 30 seconds, I’m visualizing and trying to figure out what sticks out to me—and that’s what I’m exaggerating. That’s one of the techniques.
Diane: And that, coupled with you talking to the youth now—youth that potentially are in trouble or could be in trouble. But you’re talking to them. You’re also saying, hey, look, I went down a path you don’t want to go down.
Ray: They will not want to go.
Diane: You can be that good example.
Ray: Yes, most definitely. And that path gets even darker when you’re inside. It gets darker. It gets deeper. So if you can’t think for yourself and you want to impress people, you will dig a deep hole. So I don’t want to go there.
Diane: Yeah, gosh, you look so happy and just so—not “well-adjusted”—that’s not the word, but it is given where you’ve been and where you are now. It’s just so refreshing to see you. So thank you for sitting down with me.
Ray: Yes, anytime. Just send me a message. I’ll make time to be available. I’ll make myself available. I will.
Diane: When are you going into San Quentin?
Ray: That’s Kobe that’s going into San Quentin. He has something already connected. I plan on it. I already voiced it with CROP. So CROP will be going into some of the prisons, like specifically Solano.
Diane: If you’re coming up here, our offices are right outside the gates. Let’s make something happen so I can give you a hug in real life.
Ray: Yes, I’m open to that.
Diane: All right. Thank you!
Ray: Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it.
Diane: No problem. Wishing you all good success.
Ray: Likewise. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Diane: I will. Take care.
Ray: All right. Bye.
Diane: Bye.
